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Judges 11:30 Promise then burns daughter?!
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TOPIC: Judges 11:30 Promise then burns daughter?!
#668
Judges 11:30 Promise then burns daughter?! 1 Year, 4 Months ago Kudos: 18
30 And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD, and said, "If You will indeed deliver the people of Ammon into my hands, then it will be that whatever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the people of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD'S, and I will offer it up as a burnt offering."

39 And it was so at the end of two months that she returned to her father, and he carried out his vow with her which he had vowed.


Do I understand correctly that Jephthah killed his daughter and burned her up as an offering to God? I may neet A LOT of help with this one!
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#669
Re:Judges 11:30 Promise then burns daughter?! 1 Year, 4 Months ago Kudos: 20
This is another passage that I think is like the Achan one that was dealt with earlier - where it is possible that innocent people apparently are killed, but I think that the text once again shows another possible (and I would say probable) result.

Earlier Scripture plainly shows that human sacrifice is an abomination.
God does not demand , nor does He want or will accept such a horrible practice:


Deuteronomy 12: 31 You shall not worship the Lord your God in that way, for every abominable thing that the Lord hates they have done for their gods, for they even burn their sons and their daughters in the fire to their gods.

Deuteronomy 18:10 There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer

A later word of God also states that such a practice never entered the mind of God as something He would ever want done (and that would include the supposed "burnt" sacrifice of Jephthah's daughter:

Jeremiah 19: 3 ‘Hear the word of the Lord, O kings of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem. Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: Behold, I am bringing such disaster upon this place that i the ears of everyone who hears of it will tingle. 4 Because the people have forsaken me and have profaned this place by making offerings in it to other gods whom neither they nor their fathers nor the kings of Judah have known; and because they have filled this place with the blood of innocents, 5 and have built the high places of Baal * to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, m which I did not command or decree, nor did it come into my mind—

[TimberWolf's note: "Ba'al" can mean any god...so a human sacrifice to any god whatsoever, even if they think they are doing it for the true God in their ignorance or evil, is something wrong and not acceptable]


One who makes a rash vow and then realizes it is sinful is not to keep the rash vow, but to atone for it:

Leviticus 5: 4 or if anyone utters with his lips a rash oath to do evil or to do good, any sort of rash oath that people j swear, and it is hidden from him, when he comes to know it, and he realizes his guilt in any of these; 5 when he realizes his guilt in any of these and confesses the sin he has committed, 6 he shall bring to the Lord as his compensation for the sin that he has committed, a female from the flock, a lamb or a goat, for a sin offering. And the priest shall make atonement for him for his sin.

Was Jephthah's daughter "sacrificed"? In a certain sense, YES!
She was set aside as a perpetual virgin. The passage mentions that aspect over and over- pointing to the most important thing was that the daughter remains a virgin - neither she, the father or anything else in the passage seems to care that she is going to die! So, it is logical to conclude she didn't, but remained a spiritually dedicated virgin. The result was that entire line of Jephthah ended and his daughter lost out on having a husband, because in this sense, Jephthah COULD keep his vow and it troubled him.

Jephthah shows a great knowledge of the history and Scriptures of Israel, but he also speaks rashly. another thing to note is that he obviously never expects a human being, much less his daughter, to come out to meet him- most likely expecting some animal to come from the household area.

I think there is a LOT more about this passage that could be said to preclude Jephthah actually burning his daughter, but I will end here. This another of many sticky passages, but I think it is important to keep with the general principles of Scripture as they were built previously or we are going to have some severe conundrums arising that are not keeping with them or God's character as revealed in Scripture.

Peace
TimberWolf

any dissenting or affirming posts are appreciated, since I think these are the kinds of passages that help us to practice Bible reading and interpretation
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#671
Re:Judges 11:30 Promise then burns daughter?! 1 Year, 4 Months ago Kudos: 18
Some thoughts:

1. It was helpful for me to go back and read your post on Achan. Thanks again TimberWolf.
2. I try to do more than simply "peruse" the Bible as I am reading it through for the first time. However, due to my intellectual level, attention span, and propensity to over-react when my lack of biblical background and understanding frustrates me ~ when I am not able to recall, comprehend, and/or satisfactorily analyze a day's reading due to what often seems trivia-and-"general principles of Scripture" overload ~ it is often easy to miss stuff. The opposite challenge is, of course, not to make more of something than is warrented.
3. I can easily understand now why it would have been to my advantage to do "what my mother told me" when I was a child, and more patiently and diligently look upon my Christian journey as a positve experience. Instead, chose to blow it off, and now the learning curve is a bit steeper me thinks!
4. It pretty much bogles my mind when I see how many people visit this site and how few actually post anything! Your postscript, "any dissenting or affirming posts are appreciated, since I think these are the kinds of passages that help us to practice Bible reading and interpretation" is, in my opinion, so totally right on. I don't know what you background is, but it's a heck of a lot more extensive than mine. I'm struggling to get through each days reading with a parallel Bible in one hand, "Bible for Dummies" next to me, decent Sunday school class that I try to attend, and a weekly men's group that meets faithfully at Starbucks [which thankfully includes the pastor!] as additional resources. Even so, this stuff is even harder than trying to learn Spanish! I absolutely cannot understand why more people don't share their thoughts and understanding here. But, I have sworn off trying to understand everything anymore.
5. "Was Jephthah's daughter 'sacrificed'? In a certain sense, YES!" Hummmmm! I think that I am following your train of thought, but I get to thinking that maybe you [and I] prefer happy endings. I am remaining open to any and everything as being possible, only because our Creator did a pretty awesome job with allowing us this experience. I like the reasoning/rationale you are using to support your desire for avoiding having to deal emotionally with families getting stoned and young virgins getting burned. God knows that I am NOT looking forward to future "severe conundrums" so am very open to whatever straws can be grasped as this adventure continues on... [accompanied by critical thinking, of course].
6. Hang in there, buddy. Your doing well! [Wish you could join us at Starbucks.]
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#697
Re:Judges 11:30 Promise then burns daughter?! 1 Year, 4 Months ago Kudos: 20
http://kimriddlebarger.squarespace.com/s...-the-book-of-judges/

At the bottom of that page, I found an article when I was looking back over some blogs that I subscribe to, but haven't had the time to look at during finals. Interestingly it was on this very topic!

It is a PDF about Jephthah, his daughter and the incident in Judges in this thread by someone I respect highly: Kim Riddlebarger

here is the direct link to the PDF:

kimriddlebarger.squarespace.com/sermons-...0the%20Lord%2014.pdf

VERY interesting and FAR better done than I ever could. Mr. Riddlebarger is one of the most thorough and balanced theologians I have ever had the pleasure of hearing or reading. A kind person, too

I hope it is worth reading that and revisiting this issue... very enlightening.

I wish I had this kind of wisdom and knowledge and scholarly ease of style!
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#707
Re:Judges 11:30 Promise then burns daughter?! 1 Year, 4 Months ago Kudos: 18
Very good content and, I agree with you, a very good writer. Thank you for the reference and ongoing diligence. [I'm thinking she burned.]

"But under an economy of repeated and perpetual sacrifice, we can certainly understand why
someone like Jephthah, who was very zealous, and not well taught, rashly made a vow to the Lord, all the while thinking of securing God’s favor in the coming battle by sacrificing the first thing to come through his door (or gate)." Riddlebarger

Here is another heck of a good argument for the importance of a good education!

"But it is vital for us to understand that Christ’s sacrifice for us as establishes such a firm and secure relationship with God that everything we do in faith, is now called “a living sacrifice” acceptable to God. In other words, Jesus because has paid our debt in full, we no longer need to make “deals” with God. We simply do what we do in faith, trusting that God will bring his will to pass. This completely frees us from all forms of superstition and works righteousness. There is absolutely no need, nor is there any justification for bargaining with God. Jesus has delivered us from sacrifices. He has delivered us from superstitious vows." Riddlebarger

Amen!
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#714
Re:Judges 11:30 Promise then burns daughter?! 1 Year, 4 Months ago Kudos: 20
Is betting Ok for Christians?
we need to put 5 bucks on the table and see which way that whole Jephthah incident went down once we enter Eternity hehe

It is definitely interesting, to say the least.

Riddlebarger is the gold standard sometimes in clean exegesis.
That statement you quoted from himabout works and bargaining 'n' such is definitely powerful... too bad that one thing isn't coming from some pulpits!

Peace

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